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Words like /bkroŋs/ and /bsgrubs/ are called "syllables" in Tibetan. Yet, there is no way to pronounce a "b" and a "k" in a sequence, without a syllabic pause between them. It is physically impossible it feels like. The "b" is lips opening to air, and "k" is throat opening to air. You can't open your lips and open your throat in the same flow, in slow-motion you are doing:

b ... kroŋs

It is as if you are saying /bʊkroŋs/, or even so far as just /b.kroŋs/, all of which are two syllables. The "b" must come before the "k", and is a syllable edge.

Are Tibetan syllables really not syllables like you would find in English, but are some other structures which begin with a consonant (or cluster) and end with an optional consonant (or cluster), and that's it? Or are they somehow blending these two sounds together which seem to be physically impossible?

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  • Trying not to ask how to pronounce words, which got immediately shut down in a harsh way. Commented Nov 15 at 3:59
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    Ancient Greek has onset clusters /bd/ /pt/ /pʰtʰ/ /kt/ & /kʰtʰ/ (not sure about /gd/, it doesn't seem to be attested word-initially at least) so onsets consisting of a sequence of two stops are hardly unprecedented (and at the opposite end of the syllable, English has /bd/ /pt/ /gd/ /kt/, which should seemingly be just as "physically impossible" as the onset clusters)
    – Tristan
    Commented Nov 15 at 10:29
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    Slavic languages have at least these onset clusters of 2 plosives: /pt/, /db/, /tk/, /kp/, /gb/, /kt/, /gd/ (and many clusters also containing affricates or fricatives, e.g. /pt͡ʃ/, /pʃ/, /tt͡ʃ/, /tʃ/, /kʃ/, /t͡ʃp/, /t͡ʃt/, /t͡ʃk/ etc.).
    – Arfrever
    Commented Nov 16 at 6:05
  • While these syllables are certainly complex for an English speaker. Are they not simpler than Georgian გვფრცქვნი ([ɡ̊ʷpʰɾt͡sʰkʰʷni]) and მწვრთნელი (/mt͡sʼvrtʰneli/, [m̥t͡sʼʷ(ɾ)tʰne̞li]), for the pronunciation of which see the entries in Wiktionary. Worse yet, look at Nuxalk words like xłp̓x̣ʷłtłpłłskʷc̓ in Wiktionary of Tashelhiyt Berber which allows " allows any segment, including voiceless stops, to be a syllable nucleus (jstor.org/stable/26351981) and includes words like [ntl] ‘hide!’, [tntltːnt] ‘you hid them (F )’ Commented Nov 23 at 2:14

2 Answers 2

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Wikipedia explains how the Old Tibetan syllable structure worked (emphasis added):

In Old Tibetan, syllables can be quite complex with up to three consonants in the onset, two glides, and two coda consonants. This structure can be represented as (C1C2)C3(G1G2)V(C4C5), with all positions except C3 and V optional. This allows for complicated syllables like བསྒྲིགས bsgrigs "arranged" and འདྲྭ 'drwa "web", for which the pronunciations [βzɡriks] and [ɣdrʷa] can be reconstructed.

A voicing contrast only exists in slot C3 and spreads to C1 and C2 so སྒོ sgo "door" would be realized as [zɡo] while སྐུ sku "body" would be [sku]. Final consonants are always voiceless e.g. འཛིནད་ 'dzind [ɣd͡zint] and གཟུགས་ gzugs [gzuks]. The phoneme /b/ in C1 was likely realized as [ɸ] (or [β] when C3 is voiced) e.g. བསྒྲེ bsgre [βzɡre] and བརྩིས brtsis [ɸrtˢis]. The features of palatalization /i̯/ [Cʲ] and labialization /w/ [Cʷ] can be considered separate phonemes, realized as glides in G1 and G2 respectively.

Modern Tibetan phonology has no consonant clusters. From a Reddit post I infer that there are a lot of silent letters in modern Tibetan, such that those initial "b"s are no longer spoken at all, at least in some words.

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I too am looking forward to someone knowledgeable to answer this long-standing question of mine. Until such time, I have to offer a few clues to open your mind a bit as far as the concept of a syllable is concerned:

  • Observe there are languages with stops that release at two points of obstruction simultaneously, and you can easily do that yourself
  • the prefix in bk- could be symbolic, indicating a sound that has commonalities with [b] but is not precisely [b]
  • the prefixes could act similarly to French mute coda consonants that only surface under special conditions (see 'liaison')
  • syllables are not necessarily integer, they may also be 'fractional'. Ex. when you model syllable boundaries using a segmental symbol like [#], how do you model En. folly—is it /fo#li/ or /fol#i/? A third possibility cannot be modeled by the boundary-as-segment model, namely that the /l/ belongs to both the first and the second syllables (it is ambisyllabic). Likewise, when you compare 'blue' with 'bluer', it is certainly possible to say the latter in two distinct syllables, but when you utter 'a blue life' and 'a bluer life', the latter one certainly has 'less syllables' than, say, 'a blue-green life', indicating that the '-er' is a fraction of a syllable.
  • I can totally say [bkro-] without a vowel between [b] and [k] by filling my closed mouth with air while the glottis produces the voicing, then do a dorso-velar release, followed by a tongue gesture for the rhotaid. Observe that in e.g. German 'Herbst' we have a syllable ending in [-rpst] that are likewise uttered in sequence without intervening vowels that constitute a single syllable coda.
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    there's also potentially the option of the Tibetan "syllables" actually sometimes being sesquisyllables, with a preceding light syllable
    – Tristan
    Commented Nov 15 at 10:24
  • Can you record yourself saying bkro in one syllable? I don't believe it. Just record with your phone and put it on Soundcloud (free). Commented Nov 16 at 1:23
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    @LancePollard Aside from the fact that with very probable voicedness assimilation bk would be [pk] or [bg], in what exactly you do not believe? When searching for words with similar phonological structure (onset: 2 plosives + sonorant consonant) in Wiktionary, I found Polish tkliwy (with audio sample) and Czech tklivý.
    – Arfrever
    Commented Nov 16 at 4:45
  • @Arfrever I believe what Lance is referring to is the fact that those recordings sound like they have an extra syllable. Phonetically, I would transcribe the first one as [tə̯̥ˈkliˑʋɘ], with an ultra-short, devoiced vowel-like segment between the [t] and the [k]. That segment is virtually unavoidable if you want to separately enunciate the release of two sequential plosives, and it makes it sound like an extra syllable, even if it isn’t one phonemically. Commented Nov 16 at 13:37
  • @JanusBahsJacquet Do you consider that this ultra-short vowel-like segment occurs also in coda of English words like pact, tact, conduct, product?
    – Arfrever
    Commented Nov 16 at 13:51

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