Timeline for Can framing lang acquisition as nature vs nurture be harmful?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
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| Oct 26, 2016 at 22:21 | comment | added | michau | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 22:20 | comment | added | mobileink | sorry, you ask for my opinion and then complain that I'm just stating my opinion? I don't gst it. | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 22:17 | comment | added | michau | @mobileink The purpose of my answer is to summarise the focus of the controversy in the debate. Now you're just stating your opinions about your support for one of the two sides. There's nothing wrong with these opinions, but they don't add anything to my answer. By the way, you didn't say "learn a language", but used the adjective "linguistic". If you want, I can reformulate my answer in your lingo: "The only real point of controversy is whether the structures in our brains that enable us to learn to function in a linguistic community are specific to this kind of learning or not" | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 22:02 | comment | added | mobileink | and no, I personally do not think the answer depends on structures (or whatever) in the child's brain that are used exclusively for language learning. I've never seen evidence for this but I've seen evidence to the contrary. e.g. tomasello. | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 21:59 | comment | added | mobileink | I agree that healthy newborn (human) infants have the ability to learn to function in a linguistic community. I personally do not think this ability is based on anything innately linguistic, altho I try to keep an open mind. this is a very complex question, note that I did not say "learn a language". I do not believe in languages. ;) "The French language" is a fiction. what I believe in is practical discursive skill. | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 21:52 | comment | added | michau | @mobileink "if an innate ability is not language-specific, then it is not an innate language-learning ability" Every healthy newborn child has the ability to learn language. Do you agree or not? Does your answer to this question depend on whether some structures in the child's brain are used exclusively for language learning? | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 21:41 | comment | added | mobileink | how can we have "innate language-learning abilities" that are not language-specific? if an innate ability is not language-specific, then it is not an innate language-learning ability. also, if we do have innate language-specific abilities then by definition they do not involve learning (from experience). I get the impression you're trying to effaced the difference between nativism and non-nativism. there remains an enormous gulf between the two. if politicians think they can exploit a supposedly scientific claim that language is innate they will. they don't care about the finer points. | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 21:29 | comment | added | michau | @mobileink "if standard grammar is innate" As I said in my answer, there is no controversy about innateness of the "standard grammar" (whatever it means). The controversy is whether any part of our innate language-learning abilities (which we undoubtedly have) is language-specific. How could such a thing have any relevance for politicians? | |
| Oct 26, 2016 at 21:10 | comment | added | mobileink | "I can't see how the controversy about language-specificity of our language learning abilities can be a source of any harm or oppression." you underestimate the politicians. if standard grammar is innate, then anybody who deviates can be declared an undesirable, deviant, etc. on scientific grounds. stranger things have happened. | |
| Oct 24, 2016 at 6:39 | comment | added | michau | @mobileink You're right. I removed this word, it's irrelevant to my point anyway. | |
| Oct 24, 2016 at 6:34 | history | edited | michau | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Oct 24, 2016 at 0:30 | comment | added | mobileink | "Everybody agrees that humans have innate cognitive abilities that enable them to learn language." innate abilities, ok. innate cognitive abilities is a whole 'nother idea. it is patently not true that "everybody" agrees that humans have innate cognitive abilities. that just begs the question about cognitivity. | |
| Oct 23, 2016 at 21:38 | comment | added | michau | @LuísHenrique Of course chimps share some cognitive abilities with humans. But if they had exactly the same cognitive abilities as humans, they would learn language to the same degree as humans do. And they don't. So some cognitive abilities related to language learning must be specific to humans. | |
| Oct 23, 2016 at 20:03 | comment | added | Luís Henrique | "that's the only sensible explanation of why people learn language while other animals don't." - But is it? Chimps have not invented and do not learn languages in the wild, but they have been shown to display linguistic abilities once they are deliberately taught sign languages. Would they have that mysterious language cerebral center, too? And what for, if they do not use it "naturally"? | |
| Oct 23, 2016 at 10:15 | history | edited | michau | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Oct 23, 2016 at 10:06 | history | edited | michau | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Oct 23, 2016 at 9:28 | history | edited | michau | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Oct 23, 2016 at 9:22 | history | answered | michau | CC BY-SA 3.0 |