Timeline for Which languages other than Chinese have apical vowels?
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8 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 29, 2022 at 6:44 | comment | added | iopq | The modern books on Chinese phonology like "The Phonology of Standard Chinese" by San Duanmu no longer use Karlgren's symbols | |
| Dec 29, 2022 at 5:30 | comment | added | Stumpy Joe Pete | @iopq You're free to go argue with the sinologists who use the symbols! I don't really care one way or the other how people choose to write them. (In practice, I just transcribe things in pinyin.) Once I figured out how different people pronounce the relevant sounds and what different people mean when they write the various things they write, I didn't really have any questions left. | |
| Dec 29, 2022 at 5:22 | comment | added | iopq | there's no reason to invent new symbols. For example, /r/ can be an approximant, and it can be a fricative. We don't need to write / ɻ ~ ʐ / as a single symbol, you just pick one like /ʐ/ and everyone knows you mean pinyin r. Similarly, Chinese has a lot of variance of how 鱼 would be pronounced [ɥy] or [ʔy] - you just need to decide on a phonemic representation like /y/ and call it a day. You don't need a special symbol of a sound in between a vowel and an approximant to indicate the variation | |
| Dec 29, 2022 at 4:47 | comment | added | Stumpy Joe Pete | @iopq I mean, I think this is just a question of notation. In some people's speech / in some syllables, there's frication (which non-sinologists would just write as syllabic fricatives). In other people's speech / for other syllables, there isn't, and non-sinologists would probably write with syllabic approximants. Sinologists often use their own notation for this, I think partly to emphasize the alveoleopalatal nature of the zi/ci/si set. I mean, at heart, the tongue just is where it is. Nothing but atoms and the void; the rest is just a human choice about notation. | |
| Dec 28, 2022 at 14:42 | comment | added | iopq | If it's [sɰ] it still makes no difference. There's no such thing as an apical vowel, and no such thing will be added to IPA since there's no need for a syllable to necessarily have a vowel | |
| Dec 24, 2022 at 15:55 | comment | added | Stumpy Joe Pete | @iopq are you unfamiliar with approximants? Or are you just making a normative statement about syllabic consonants? | |
| Dec 24, 2022 at 1:38 | comment | added | iopq | If there is no frication, then it's just vowels; [sɯ] is just a plain consonant + vowel combination | |
| Jun 18, 2012 at 15:07 | history | answered | Stumpy Joe Pete | CC BY-SA 3.0 |